Toonbots message board: New toon, Napster

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gopher Wed Feb 14 12:51:11 2001
New toon, Napster

Well, since our good Brother Emsworth is not with us, it appears that I will have to take up the task of speculation and analysis.

With respect to today's cartoon, I quite enjoyed the subtle reference to "When you pirate mp3s, you're downloading communism" (http://modernhumorist.com/mh/0011/mp3/before.cfm). Combined with the date of the 'toon (day before Valentine's day), it also turns into a commentary on the sad practice of the card and candy companies preying upon human emotion in the name of capitalism and profit. The choice of the pink caption for Napster points to this reference.

However, this 'toon raises the question of whether Napster will join the ranks of the disembodied communist heads? Also, will various court rulings also give Napster the status of a dead communist head? The only problem seems to be that the Napster head has no body from which to be separated. What will Mao think of this? So many questions...

glych Wed Feb 14 19:40:38 2001
Money Good! Napster bad!

Okay...Let me attack this one:

I love Napster.

Napster is good.

Napster is sharing, not stealing.

Stealing is hacking into someone's comp and taking whatever fule, and/or mp3 that is there for your own enjoyment.

Sharing is allowing other people to download selected files (mp3s) from your computer for their PERSONAL use...

The only defense from the record companies: "You're preventing the sale of our CDS!"

Bullshit. (pardon my slang)

Most people buy a CD after downloading a 2 or more songs of a certain band off of Napster.

The record companies should use it as a marketing device.

"Souly released on Napster!"

"Top Download of the week on Napster!"

"Napster Good! Money Bad!

The record companies are capitolists...greedy, snobby, and out for themselves.

Napster good, record companies bad...

that is all.

(This has been a minimalist post by glych)

-glych

Michael Wed Feb 14 22:00:33 2001
Re: Money Good! Napster bad!

> Okay...Let me attack this one:

> I love Napster.

> Napster is good.

Wow. I was just about to tear you a new one after reading the title of your post. Fortunately I read the content first.

What absolutely *kills* me is that the Sony Betamax precedent, which the RIAA thought was great when it bought that case, is now being rejected when Napster tries to use it against the RIAA. The upshot is patently obvious: money talks louder than justice or freedom in this country.

The obvious recourse for Napster? Relocate, perhaps to China. As long as you don't propagandize against the government, they don't care *what* you do in China. But Napster won't do that. They're too twentieth.

I predict that Gnutella is going to get way more usable, real fast. And there will be nothing that the RIAA can attack -- so they've shot themselves in the foot completely. In the meantime, Patel will probably order heinous damages against Napster, Napster will appeal, the bought-and-paid-for Supreme Court will refuse to hear it, and did I mention I'm probably leaving the country? (Nothing from France yet. I'm playing it cool.)

Well, I could heap vitriol on the smoking corpse of American freedom all day long, but I'm in the middle of my second episode in two days, so I'll leave you now.

glych Thu Feb 15 01:59:48 2001
Title for a Joe Cartoon

It's a great one with the lead singer from Mitallica talking sh*t on Napster...very funny. Anyhoo, I have friends over in Europe who have heard nothing of the ruling...Chances are, Napster will move there. Also;

America is a Political system of Representative Democracy with an ECONOMIC system of Capitolism. Not a politocal system of capitolism....see the difference? Even though people try to their hearts content not to be currupted, blah blah blah, money does speak louder than words, wants, needs, feelings, music, rights, and morals. It's sad yet true.

Also, Communism isn't a bad thing. The POLITICAL systems used to enhanse the ECONOMIC system of Communism were terrible. All of them dictatorships. Communism is a nice idea. But it could never work. Human nature prevents it,

Just like the true freedom of Anarchy. A governemtn, a loose, dictatorship and/or absolute monarchy would form out of those that are stronger than their peers. It is human nature for the strong to vilify, mallest, and rape the weak from all of their holdings and all of their rights. That is why this country, America made themselfs a Democracy with limitatiuons on all powers. To prevent the destruction and oppression of the majority by a minority.

In this case, the minority is Napster and it's users. But, Power currupts, and Absolute Power currupts absolutely. To me, money, espessially a LOT of money is as close to absolute power as you can in the regulated day.

Can you smell the teaming curruption yet?

Sickening, isn't it?

I fear for freedom.

-glych

gopher Thu Feb 15 10:02:53 2001
Re: Title for a Joe Cartoon

> Can you smell the teaming curruption yet?

> Sickening, isn't it?

> I fear for freedom.

Does anyone know what it takes to found one's own country? I figured I'd name something like "gopher-land", since that way I could try to get the .go TLD, and, seeing how much people are paying for .tv, I bet I could make some money off of a real word. Hrm...

> Also, Communism isn't a bad thing. The POLITICAL systems used to enhanse the
> ECONOMIC system of Communism were terrible.

But commnunism also prevents motivation of the people. If everyone is guaranteed total equality, there is no higer goal to which to reach, so there is no reason for any individual to strive to make something better.

> But it could never work. Human nature prevents it,

D'oh! Would help if I read the whole post before I started responding...

> That is why this country, America made themselfs a Democracy with limitatiuons
> on all powers. To prevent the destruction and oppression of the majority by a
> minority.

But the reverse was also a goal. (looks for the relevant passage in the Federalist papers) Hrm...doesn't seem incredibly quotable. It's Federalist paper #10, anyways (http://memory.loc.gov/const/fed/fed_10.html). The point is that our Republic does not stand merely for the rule by a majority, but part of the purpose of our government is to prevent the oppression of a minority faction by the majority. By things like the Napster rulings, the DeCSS rulings, the DMCA, and others, it seems that our government is failing quite miserably at this.

glych Sat Feb 17 13:13:09 2001
Ah! But you are mistaken...

> The point is that our Republic does not stand merely for the rule by a
> majority, but part of the purpose of our government is to prevent the
> oppression of a minority faction by the majority. By things like the
> Napster rulings, the DeCSS rulings, the DMCA, and others, it seems that
> our government is failing quite miserably at this.

One part of our current democracy is that the majority reconize the minorities right to become a majority...

Singing: And we call this a CATCH 22... That's right, it's a CATCH 22! What are you to do, with a CATCH 22 -Are you gonna' get the flu, or think music's a kazoo, or are you wanting to- Be a CATCH 22!...

There's more words, I just can'tt hink of them...

the background is kazoos...it's very humourus.

-glych

gopher Sat Feb 17 15:21:23 2001
Re: Ah! But you are mistaken...

> One part of our current democracy is that the majority reconize the
> minorities right to become a majority...

Republic, not democracy. There's a reason they put that bit into the Pledge of Allegiance. Rather than a simple rule by majority we have representatives who are supposed to act in the best interests those they represent. And how is the recognition of the minority's right to become a majority a part of the government? Also, if this is the only thing protecting the minority from oppression, it seems that we would require a small revolution anytime something needed to be done.

Napoleon Sat Feb 17 20:04:09 2001
Re: Ah! But you are mistaken...

> Also, if this is the only thing
> protecting the minority from oppression, it seems that we would require a
> small revolution anytime something needed to be done.

Sounds like a good idea to me... I'll bring the torches if someone brings the pitchforks!

gopher Sat Feb 17 21:05:43 2001
Re: Ah! But you are mistaken...

> Sounds like a good idea to me... I'll bring the torches if someone brings
> the pitchforks!

Government by defenestration, perhaps?

Defenestration makes everything better!

Brother Emsworth Sat Feb 17 21:36:16 2001
Re: Ah! But you are mistaken...

> Defenestration makes everything better!

Should that be considered one of the PAFTWJ's official slogans?

Of course, you mustn't forget the wolverines... just in case. Poor things could probably do with the exercise anyway, they've been simply lounging about of late, it seems.

Don't have any pitchforks at the moment, but I do have a couple picks and access to a wide array of wire and metal coils and such, should they be needed.

Napoleon Sun Feb 18 17:40:40 2001
Re: Ah! But you are mistaken...

> Should that be considered one of the PAFTWJ's official slogans?

> Of course, you mustn't forget the wolverines... just in case. Poor things
> could probably do with the exercise anyway, they've been simply lounging
> about of late, it seems.

> Don't have any pitchforks at the moment, but I do have a couple picks and
> access to a wide array of wire and metal coils and such, should they be
> needed.

Ooooooh... coils! We can put them on the wolverine's feet, and then the wolverines can jump-attack people! Plus they'd have fun and get that needed exercise. And wolverines *sproing*ing fifteen feet into the air would look cool.

glych Mon Feb 19 04:21:42 2001
I envoke feelings and revolution! i feel loved.

So there I was...hanging by a licorice whip. The case was getting heavy and the monkey getting tired. I could see the cartonist coming over the rize with thier torches and pez dispensers ablaze. I couldn't help but think to myself: I shoulda' called it a republic.

-glych

You mutineers!

Michael Thu Feb 15 11:08:13 2001
Freedom, and lack thereof.

> America is a Political system of Representative Democracy with an ECONOMIC
> system of Capitolism. Not a politocal system of capitolism....see the
> difference?

Don't teach grandpappy to suck eggs, dear. I've been voting libertarian since you were in grade school, and my wife is a card-carrying, real live Communist. A Hungarian one. We have ... interesting discussions. But one thing's for sure, and that is that we both believe in freedom.

At least since World War II, America, though in name a representative democracy, has been an oligarchy ruled by the large corporations. Actually, I suspect that this movement dates right back to the turn of the twentieth century, with Standard Oil, the first really big American (or any) corporation.

The corporation dehumanizes. That's its purpose. Management is *supposed* to regard human beings as interchangeable units, in the interest of efficiency. Consumers are not individual human beings with desires, ambitions, or dreams; they are resources, to be bought and sold, manipulated, planned, and coerced. That's what America has chosen, actively, for a hundred years now.

When America was founded, it was a nation of farmers and shopkeepers. Individuality was highly valued, and a lot of that attitude persists even though it's inconvenient for Big Business and government. It's what makes America American, still. I grew up on a farm (sort of) because my father was a back-to-the-land nut, read Mother Earth News and the Foxfire books, Emerson and Thoreau, and built a log cabin which we heated with wood. This is a great way to grow up... Except when you have grown up, you realize that you're in the wrong century. In the nineteenth I would have been perfectly normal. In the twenty-first I'm markedly strange.

Enter the Internet. The Internet *is* individual. It transcends governments, flummoxes the efforts by Big Business to control it, and has so insinuated itself into the fabric of daily existence that I dearly hope it can never be eradicated. And a funny thing is happening. People are noticing that Big Business doesn't operate on the same ethical standards as regular humans. Thirty years ago, this was probably more true than it is right now, but at the speed of newsprint, I don't think people had the opportunity to see it. But when things speed up by a factor of a hundred, Business can't react as quickly and the truth starts to shine through the cracks.

So. Do as I do. Fire your boss. Be a sole proprietor. Where possible, don't work for corporations, but instead work with small business. (By small, I mean fewer than ten employees. Larger than that, and dehumanization kicks in. I had some extensive conversations on this topic with a friend of mine who became the Technical Manager of an IT consulting company which grew from about 15 to 75 people over five years -- and became just as dehumanizing as any other corporation in that same time. With the same people in charge. He still doesn't see it, but it was an eerie thing to watch, with those corporate American memes slowly encroaching on what had been a very warm and loving workplace.)

And read Toonbots.

Napoleon Wed Feb 14 22:21:52 2001
Re: Money Good! Napster bad!

> Napster good, record companies bad...

> that is all.

I like glych. Can we keep her?

Michael Wed Feb 14 22:28:45 2001
Keeping glych.

> I like glych. Can we keep her?

I don't think she has a choice. We're the Jihad. We know where her message board is.

glych Thu Feb 15 01:47:32 2001
I feel all loved and stuff *blush*

Thanks,

-glych

Michael Fri Feb 16 16:15:46 2001
Post #1000!!!

> Thanks,

I'd like to note that this was post #1000.

Brother Emsworth Fri Feb 16 16:27:29 2001
Re: Post #1000!!!

> I'd like to note that this was post #1000.

That's scary. This forum, which has been around since October, with less than twenty posters period (I think), and only about six to eight regulars at any given time, reached 1,000 posts, while the Diabolica board, and other Spot and Space forums, are still struggling. If by some freak of nature Toonbots ever gets to Keenspot (frankly, given recent trends in the strip, and increasing acclaim in the webtoon community, it may not be as far fetched as it seemed in the begining, though still a long shot; still waiting on the Doodle and the Block, after all), I'm beginning to think the jihad could compete with the CRFH board, and probably make more sense, as well (if not, well, mass defenestration is alwyas an option, isn't it? Plus we have the wolverines, just in case.)

gopher Wed Feb 14 23:04:52 2001
Re: Money Good! Napster bad!

> Stealing is hacking into someone's comp and taking whatever fule, and/or
> mp3 that is there for your own enjoyment.

And even then it's not the same as real stealing, unless the 1337 haX0R goes around rampantly deleting files and there's no backups.

> The record companies should use it as a marketing device.

> The record companies are capitolists...greedy, snobby, and out for
> themselves.

Just wanted to point out the motivation doesn't necessarily seem to be one of profits (though that's the excuse), but more one of a lack of understanding and fear. As you say, record companies could distribute mp3s as a means of marketing new songs, and they would then sell more records and make more money and everyone would be happy. However, what they see is that people who wouldn't have payed for the songs anyways are getting songs off of Napster and *gasp* not paying for them. Oh well, I'll stop before I go into a full-blown copyright rant.

> Napster good, record companies bad...

Emusic's kinda cool, though. I signed up for that $10/month unlimited mp3 thing, and I'm quite happy with it. If the record companies actually tried more of this (selling mp3s), I think things would be happier. Emusic's ideas of trying to stop people distributing emusic mp3s on Napster seems misguided, though, even if only from the technical standpoint (based on MD5 sums, I believe. Yeah, like that's really hard to change..)






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