Toonbots message board: ok, people

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mouse Wed Jun 12 15:57:11 2002
ok, people

we're going to have to do better than this if we want siece to stick around.

i have finally seen episode 2, so i hereby declare open season on all star wars speculation. one important plot point that i have not seen discussed:

c3po now seems to be finally teamed up with r2d2, and is part of amidala's (and eventually leia's) retinue. at some point he got replated, but other than that, he seems to have achieved his final configuration. so.....why does he have no memory of living on tatooine? he must have been on the moisture farm for several years, and he was created on the planet. (and by the way - why would anakin build a protocol droid of all things anyway?) r2's moves in ep4 suggest that _he_ remembers the place - he knows where to go, both after they crashland, and after he escapes to find obi-wan. so what's 3po's problem? (and anyone suggesting he was programmed in 64k dos, and just doesn't have the RAM, is going to get hit).

Michael Wed Jun 12 16:40:54 2002
Re: ok, people

Well, besides the fact that C3P0 is just plain stupid? I figure he knows where the kids are hidden, but he can't be trusted not to tell Anakin, so they wipe his memory. R2D2 is probably capable of that. And frankly, since Anakin built C3P0 himself, you *know* he left the odd trapdoor in his code. I would.

As to why a protocol droid: due to the fact that a protocol droid is basically useless on Tatooine, any protocol droid spare parts would be cheap enough for an underage slave to buy or steal. Anything more useful would obviously be better watched.

siece Thu Jun 13 01:14:45 2002
Re: ok, people

> As to why a protocol droid: due to the fact that a protocol droid is
> basically useless on Tatooine, any protocol droid spare parts would be
> cheap enough for an underage slave to buy or steal. Anything more useful
> would obviously be better watched.

I have to disagree here. If you listen carefully while the main characters are in Mos Eisley, there are dozens of different languages going on in there. Add in that the jawas and sand people each seem to have their own language, and most people would be in real trouble if they needed to communicate. Being able to talk with everyone, however, would provide the best chance of finding hose willing to help a slave escape...or start a revolt. And so, I vote that C-3PO was built for ulterior motives, and kept dumb in certain areas so he wouldn't interfere.

-- žiece, CI & PIQE "But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." -- Carl Sagan -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- V3.12 GS/IT>LS>$ d- s-:--- a-- C++ L++>++++ P+ E+ W++ N++ !o K++ w+>--- O- M V-- PS+ PE++ Y+>++ PGP>++ t+ 5 X+ R* !tv b++++ DI++++ D+ G++ e>+++ h+>---- r%>+++ y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ DC2.5.D[H] Gm L- W-- T- Skh C? B"garlic" A(r v+) Fr--- Ne M>+++! O+| H++ $-- Fo-- R+++! Ac+ J+++ S(r v+) U! I V++[prayer] Q+ Tc+ E- Df+ NOTICE: All of my personal and demographic info is copyright 1979-2002 by me. Any use for marketing, demographic, or other purposes, individually or in aggregate, is strictly prohibited.

mouse Thu Jun 13 17:14:52 2002
Re: ok, people

> I have to disagree here. If you listen carefully while the main characters
> are in Mos Eisley, there are dozens of different languages going on in
> there. Add in that the jawas and sand people each seem to have their own
> language, and most people would be in real trouble if they needed to
> communicate.

but that would be a translator - protocol includes etiquette and knowledge of proper titles, etc.

>Being able to talk with everyone, however, would provide the
> best chance of finding hose willing to help a slave escape...or start a
> revolt. And so, I vote that C-3PO was built for ulterior motives, and kept
> dumb in certain areas so he wouldn't interfere.

yeah - but built by anakin aka darth vader. and c3po wasn't finished by the time he was freed, so whoever completed him probably had other motives. and how does keeping him dumb keep him from remembering? he has to be aware enough to know where he is - otherwise he would keep wandering off into the desert, or something.

siece Fri Jun 14 15:21:46 2002
Re: ok, people

>and how does keeping him dumb keep him from remembering? he has
> to be aware enough to know where he is - otherwise he would keep wandering
> off into the desert, or something.

He's dumb only incertain areas...within his designed function, he's extremely competent. Also, his ability to be dumb often plays out not as mere stupidity, but as that special kind of reverse genius gauranteed to get everything wrong in exactly the right way. 3PO is kind of the BS Johnson of the Star Wars universe.

-- žiece, CI & PIQE "Immaturity is a god send, but only if you use it right." -- Jes Idres -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- V3.12 GS/IT>LS>$ d- s-:--- a-- C++ L++>++++ P+ E+ W++ N++ !o K++ w+>--- O- M V-- PS+ PE++ Y+>++ PGP>++ t+ 5 X+ R* !tv b++++ DI++++ D+ G++ e>+++ h+>---- r%>+++ y+ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ DC2.5.D[H] Gm L- W-- T- Skh C? B"garlic" A(r v+) Fr--- Ne M>+++! O+| H++ $-- Fo-- R+++! Ac+ J+++ S(r v+) U! I V++[prayer] Q+ Tc+ E- Df+ NOTICE: All of my personal and demographic info is copyright 1979-2002 by me. Any use for marketing, demographic, or other purposes, individually or in aggregate, is strictly prohibited.

Michael Thu Jun 13 18:09:45 2002
Re: ok, people

> I have to disagree here. If you listen carefully while the main characters
> are in Mos Eisley, there are dozens of different languages going on in
> there.

Oh, sure, but there's obviously also some sort of trade language used (or maybe two or three) -- because you don't see people going around not communicating. They do fine. I'd say the language spoken by Watto and Anakin at the shop, and by the Hutts, and Sebulba, and so on, is the trade language, perhaps the closest thing Tatooine has to a native language. (Are the Hutts the natives? There sure are a bunch of species on that planet, for someplace that obviously has no agriculture to speak of. What do they *do* there? Mining, maybe?)

> Add in that the jawas and sand people each seem to have their own
> language, and most people would be in real trouble if they needed to
> communicate.

But they don't seem to have any trouble. If you're visiting from offplanet, I suppose, you'd have to hire a native guide -- but that's obviously to the benefit of Tatooine, economically speaking.

> Being able to talk with everyone, however, would provide the
> best chance of finding hose willing to help a slave escape...or start a
> revolt. And so, I vote that C-3PO was built for ulterior motives, and kept
> dumb in certain areas so he wouldn't interfere.

Hmm. Indeed. Yeah, I could buy that.

mouse Fri Jun 14 15:44:11 2002
Re: ok, people

> Oh, sure, but there's obviously also some sort of trade language used (or
> maybe two or three) -- because you don't see people going around not
> communicating. They do fine. I'd say the language spoken by Watto and
> Anakin at the shop, and by the Hutts, and Sebulba, and so on, is the trade
> language

and obviously people involved in trade do know other languages - note that watto spoke both his own, and whatever the language the jedi spoke. i suspect it's rather like europe - with so many languages in close proximity, you pick up some of everything just to get by.

> (Are the Hutts the natives? There sure are a bunch of species on that
> planet, for someplace that obviously has no agriculture to speak of. What
> do they *do* there? Mining, maybe?)

the native people seem to be the tuscan raiders (who seem to be nomadic, probably herders) and the sand people (and i have no idea how they survived before other people brought droids for them to scavange). a lot of the other people we have seen seem to be mercinaries and bounty hunters and suchlike rough types. i'm figuring it's sorta like afghanistan - an out of the way place that really doesn't have much in the way of resources, so the native people never put together much in the way of a government, being too busy just trying to survive. this means that people who are wanted elsewhere (or just don't care for laws and taxes) can come in and build their own little empires (like jabba), and be safe from any meddling (the locals they can buy off or intimidate, the republic/empire is too far away to care). the merchants, saloon keepers, etc., will naturally spring up to support everyone else. i figure the main economy does depend on stuff coming in from off-world - pirate loot, and the like.

mouse Thu Jun 13 17:20:42 2002
Re: ok, people

> Well, besides the fact that C3P0 is just plain stupid? I figure he knows
> where the kids are hidden, but he can't be trusted not to tell Anakin, so
> they wipe his memory.

i can sort of buy this.....since he also doesn't seem to know who leia is.

> And frankly, since
> Anakin built C3P0 himself, you *know* he left the odd trapdoor in his
> code. I would.

but anakin is vader - so to make sure there are no trapdoors, they would need to clear out _everything_, because you can't be sure where the trapdoor is. surely it would be easier just to scrap him altogether.

> As to why a protocol droid: due to the fact that a protocol droid is
> basically useless on Tatooine, any protocol droid spare parts would be
> cheap enough for an underage slave to buy or steal. Anything more useful
> would obviously be better watched.

why would there be such a thing as 'protocol droid parts'? (ie, parts that can _only_ be used to build protocol droids?) and if they are useless on tatooine, why would the parts be there to begin with? i would figure the 'protocol' part would be entirely in the programming - there could be other uses for humanoid-type robots.

Michael Thu Jun 13 18:04:02 2002
Re: ok, people

> i can sort of buy this.....since he also doesn't seem to know who leia is.

See?

> but anakin is vader - so to make sure there are no trapdoors, they would
> need to clear out _everything_, because you can't be sure where the
> trapdoor is. surely it would be easier just to scrap him altogether.

Except that Anakin would notice that. If there's a plausible reason to recode large chunks of him, it provides sufficent cover. And you know R2 is clever enough to do that.

> why would there be such a thing as 'protocol droid parts'?

Well, just look at him. He's nearly immobile. So obviously there's an intentional handicap at work there. Protocol droid parts would be useless for any droid who had to do any kind of physical labor, so, on Tatooine, they're junk.

> (ie, parts that
> can _only_ be used to build protocol droids?) and if they are useless on
> tatooine, why would the parts be there to begin with?

You've obviously never been to a small town. Junk ends up *everywhere*. Somebody traded it to somebody for a beer. Or the Hutts bought one as a toy. Who knows?

> i would figure the
> 'protocol' part would be entirely in the programming - there could be
> other uses for humanoid-type robots.

Sure, if they could move -- and you see humanoid robots capable of movement all over the place. Only the protocol droids are intentionally immobilized.






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