Somebody Strange Thu May 24 14:48:58 2001
Hmm.
Well, Michael, it's taken me a long time to admit it, but I don't completely get it. I can recognize that it's awesome, but I don't know enough about programming to fully understand WHY it's awesome.
However, any message board that has posts from BoxJam and Howard Tayler both (as well as numerous other nifty folks) has to belong to a groovy comic.
For those of you wishing to injure me for not fully getting Toonbots, bear in mind it's like a blind man not fully getting the visual effects of "The Matrix" or "Jurassic Park". It's not that we don't WANT to appreciate it completely -- it's that we don't really understand what we're missing.
--Strange/Dave
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Lord Emsworth Thu May 24 14:57:30 2001
Re: Hmm.
Well, if you don't mind my asking, could you be more specific as to why you don't get it? Is it the fact that you are unimpressed by (or at least uninterested in)the use of XML and Perl and whatnot to create a toon? Is it the fact that the strip involves to varying degrees and at various times minimalism, absurdist humor, avant garde images, etc. but does not have a set story structure or even a clearly stated premise? Or are the heads of Mao and company creeping you out? Or do you simply not care for the random and often incoherent and admittedly sometimes bizarre nature of the strip?
Actually, I've been trying to collect data as to what the average individual outside the Jihad thinks of Toonbots, what they like or don't like, and their overall reaction (for future use in our propoganda department), so I would appreciate some specifics.
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Napoleon Thu May 24 15:46:51 2001
Re: Hmm.
> Actually, I've been trying to collect data as to what the average
> individual outside the Jihad thinks of Toonbots, what they like or don't
> like, and their overall reaction (for future use in our propoganda
> department), so I would appreciate some specifics.
I'm gonna have to force everyone I know to at least blink at it, then. For science! (raise your hand if you now feel an urge to get those missiles ready to destroy the universe...)
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Pooga Thu May 24 23:36:50 2001
Re: Hmm.
> I'm gonna have to force everyone I know to at least blink at it, then. For
> science! (raise your hand if you now feel an urge to get those missiles
> ready to destroy the universe...)
Yes, I WILL kiss the girl from Venus!
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Tim Bram Thu May 24 18:15:12 2001
Re: Hmm.
> Actually, I've been trying to collect data as to what the average
> individual outside the Jihad thinks of Toonbots, what they like or don't
> like, and their overall reaction (for future use in our propoganda
> department), so I would appreciate some specifics.
Being a: 1) computer programmer, 2) generally creative sort, and 3) victim of chemotheraphy I'm not sure I count as average. However, being outside of the Jihad I can at least offer a few random thoughts that can masquerade as insights if one doesn't examine them closely enough.
I have enjoyed the episodes. Michael's clear confession that he has to appeal to running gags makes running through the archives rather amusing. To be perfectly honest, sometimes it's the commentary on the cartoon that I actually find more humorous than the cartoon itself. Employing disembodied heads is an interesting convention. The minimalist approach appeals to me as well.
The thing that confuses me is that, sometimes, what I would consider badly formed XML actually does what Michael seems to expect it to. I suspect that's more a matter of not understanding the conventions he's using to organise the panels especially. I can usually deduce what programming languages, data structures, and similar constructs are supposed to be doing, so not following *why* the XML does what it does establishes some bewilderment in my pysche, much to the dismays of my other identities.
Anyway, I believe I have babbled sufficiently for one brook...I mean, message. Later.
Peace, Tim Bram.
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Michael Thu May 24 19:49:29 2001
Doing what I want
> To be perfectly honest, sometimes it's the commentary on the cartoon that
> I actually find more humorous than the cartoon itself.
That's why I always do one. Sometimes it's not very funny, but I think it's part of the overall frame of the strip, because it's fictional, in a way, on its very own level. And then there's my real commentary in that journal thingy downards on the page.
> The thing that confuses me is that, sometimes, what I would consider badly
> formed XML actually does what Michael seems to expect it to.
Heh. Well, first, it doesn't always do what I expect it to do. Second, sometimes I write the Perl so that it *does* do pretty much what I expect it to do. And third, even if it's working as planned, sometimes it's just plan weird. Panel layout in particular may be confusing, because I use that rowformat attribute to do it. The panel layout algorithm is something I whipped out back in October and it really does do pretty much what I want. Except when I want something else, of course.
> so not following *why* the XML does what it does establishes some
> bewilderment in my pysche, much to the dismays of my other identities.
This is the one project I do just because I feel like it. Documentation is definitely in the back seat, along with usability and a bottle of hard liquor. My right brain is definitely driving, and there's baroqueness in the glovebox.
...
I can't push this metaphor any further without injuring it, and my winch is broken, so I'll leave it there.
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Michael Thu May 24 19:58:59 2001
Re: Hmm.
> Well, Michael, it's taken me a long time to admit it, but I don't
> completely get it. I can recognize that it's awesome, but I don't know
> enough about programming to fully understand WHY it's awesome.
Hey, Dave, some people just aren't cool enough, man. It's OK -- you can probably lead a happy and productive life.
Seriously, what can I say? I don't know why I think this stuff is funny, and I *sure* don't know why *other* people think it's funny. The challenge of drawing with XML and Perl still fires me up at times, and then I go off and implement something new, but otherwise, it's just free-form noodling. Sometimes I think of a joke in advance (like Pickle Crisp) but usually I just take a little something and try to do some Seuss on it, or do a music video or something.
But Emsworth's point is good -- what don't you get? Not that I'm going to change anything, I'm just curious. Are you expecting more of a, well, a comic strip? With characters and storylines and stuff? And then you get something off-the-wall like a couple of stick figures and Croatian lyrics? I mean, that's why I wouldn't keep up with Toonbots if I weren't the metacartoonist myself.
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Napoleon Thu May 24 20:18:10 2001
Re: Hmm.
> Seriously, what can I say? I don't know why I think this stuff is funny,
> and I *sure* don't know why *other* people think it's funny.
We were all dropped on our respective heads as children.
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Tirdun Thu May 24 20:37:26 2001
Re: Hmm.
> We were all dropped on our respective heads as children.
Pff, my head has never been respected, and I was only dropped once.
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Napoleon Thu May 24 20:42:23 2001
Re: Hmm.
> Pff, my head has never been respected, and I was only dropped once.
...but it was out of a fifth-floor window, wasn't it? :P
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Tirdun Fri May 25 07:44:03 2001
Re: Hmm.
> ...but it was out of a fifth-floor window, wasn't it? :P
Yeah, but there was a swimming pool below it. Of course, it'd have helped if there'd been water in it...
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